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A case for warships, because you can never have a big enough gun…
ID
Warships
Strength
*Trans
Cost
FL
Fleet
9
5
40
TF
Task Force
6
3
30
FT
Flotilla
3
1
20
Sarna net… “In the BattleTech universe, the term WarShip refers to starships that mount a Compact Kearny-Fuchida Drive instead of a regular (civilian) Kearny-Fuchida Drive for faster-than-light (FTL) travel.
Because of their jump capability, WarShips technically fall into the JumpShip category, but unlike these non-combatants, WarShips are typically geared for space combat. They outclass most JumpShips and virtually any DropShip by an order of magnitude in size and power.”
Reference:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/WarShip
How they work:
Warship inclusion would be optional, as with destruction of jumpships from the GO’s dashboard. Their inclusion into the game dynamic is at GO’s discretion.
Optional Ability 1: warship-bombardment, of units
Optional Ability 2: warship-bombardment, of manufacturing centers
Warships can destroy jumpships and warships during warship combat round. Only one round of warship combat proceeding unit combat. Warships may retreat after one round of combat. Jumpships cannot attack Warships. Units cannot attack Warships
Warships prevent the movement, retreat, and scuttling of jumpships, unless a friendly warship is present. Jumpships are retained by the faction unless an enemy unit is present to take control of the territory and be default the jumpships present. Whichever faction has units on the ground controls the jumpships above.
Warships can interdict (blockade) an enemy territory’s income, but cannot capture territory.
Optional Ability 3: warships prevent the manufacture of new units from manufacturing centers
Warships ignore enemy units, unless enemy warships are present during movement.
Warships do not transport units, but can transport leaders. They can also receive combat bonuses; both leader and tech. Leaders always escape a warship’s destruction and are captured if in enemy controlled territory.
Optional Ability 4: can carry half their attack value rounding down
Warships may bombard enemy units if no enemy warships are present. Only one bombardment round per territory regardless of number of warships present at the start of combat. Each warship must designate a target or elect not to. Warships attack only once per turn during warship combat phase.
Cards:
Assaultships Attack (It’s a trap!) – roll one 6 strength attack on an enemy warship of your choosing. Comstar Interdictions apply.
Build Flotilla/Task Force Card – Build appropriate 3/6 warships at a manufacturing center (undamaged) of your choosing.
ScrapYardArmory_Brian
2014-08-14 09:42:48
Ogra_chief that is one special kind of crazy. And I love it.
I really want to code up some warships now...
Give me a few to collect my thoughts on the matter.
Jimmy the Tulip
2014-08-14 23:37:51
This will utterly redefine the Clan Invasion game.... in a good and murderous way. :)
Oh, I have a great and marvellous plan for Clan Invasion v2.0.... my Super IS map and WarShips. The horror.... the horror.....
ScrapYardArmory_Brian
2014-08-15 12:34:23
Ok here goes. I will put forward details on a major expansion of the Succession Wars engine to handle space combat, aerospace units, and Warships.
Aerospace Forces
These would be named units just like normal combat units but would be designated as aero. Aero units would be able to exist on two different logical areas; Ground and Space. During the movement phase, aero forces owners may move the "location" of the unit from Ground to Space or vice versa. Aero forces operating on the ground work exactly as forces do now and are subject to casualties. For instance, Marik Militia could have a strength 4 mech unit and a strength 4 aero unit. If the aero unit is located on the ground, they could combine.
Aero units fighting on the ground without opposing aero units to challenge them would receive a +2 modifier to all rolls to reflect air superiority.
Combat would be broken into two segments, Ground and Space and be handled independent of each other. I'll make a different view for each and when you click on combat for a territory there will be links to see the ground or space segments of the battle. Casualties will be tracked separately for ground and space.
Aerospace forces would never be able to capture territory. You need boots on the ground to capture.
It is therefore possible for opposing units in the same territory if they are not in the same logical area. Combat will end when no dice can be rolled. Unopposed attacking space units will cause an interdict effect which prevents the region they occupy from producing resources.
Defending aero units in space will inflict a pre-emptive strength 3 attack on attacking ground forces if they outnumber the attacking players space based aero units. So a defender with 7 space based aero forces being attacked by a force that includes 5 space based aero forces for escort would be subject to 2 strength 3 attacks before the first round of combat occurs.
Warships
I would go further and more complicated than you originally suggested. Rather than indistinct tokens representing armadas, I'd rather have detailed warships. Warships should be unique, tough, named instruments of war with a lot of character.
I would make warships custom constructible pieces so that no two warships would be exactly alike. Warships should be tough as nails and hard to kill. Expensive but powerful.
Warships would be built on components.
Structure (how much damage can they take before being destroyed)
Transport (same as jumpships, and I'd allow them to handle forces and leaders)
Weapons Batteries (from strength 3 to strength 9, individual attacks per turn)
LF Battery (+1 movement if installed)
During space combat casualties may be assigned to warships to structure or weapons batteries to soak up hits. While warships may not exist on the ground, individual batteries way be assigned to orbital bombardment and will roll dice on the ground area.
Cost of a warship is as follows
Base cost of 8
3 x Structure
4 x Transport
2 x Weapon Battery Strength (per battery)
5 x LF Battery (one only)
Time to build would be the cost divided by 20, rounded up.
Repair cost is half cost to buy the component being repaired. Must repair at a factory.
Well, what do you think?
Jimmy the Tulip
2014-08-15 22:35:21
HOT DAMN!!! Can we have them tomorrow?
Ogra_Chief
2014-08-16 21:04:32
Give someone what they want and watch how ungrateful they become…
Not trying to reign on the parade because I would love warships in the game. However, my vision, posted simply as conversation starter, is for a simple implementation in-line with current gameplay mechanics. Would your suggested path add unneeded complexity to a simple game regarding warships implementation? My only critique.
That said, your path works as well. However, some finer points:
(1)
Warships cost has me confused. So if…
One warship (maxed out) will cost, 24 + 32 + 16 + 40 = 112 Cbills?
Structure + Transport + Weapon Battery Strength + LF Battery = 112 CBills (build time 5.6 = 6 turns)?
Prices seem steep. While warships were and have always been expensive, they should not be any more expensive than a manufacturing center, the most expensive asset in the game.
(3)
Repair of a component should be full price.
Canonically most House warships were mothballed during the Succession Wars in early source books. It was not that warships were not present, but the Inner Sphere lacked the knowledge to maintain them. In later source books this narrative changed, but the original line of thought made sense. The components were difficult to manufacture even when all the know-how was available. Take away the know-how, and they’re like slumbering mythical dragons.
Additionally, they should represent a golden bullet. Historically, most battleships and dreadnaughts never saw combat, because they were so valuable. You needed them, but couldn’t risk losing them. This fits current narrative in the present day source books. The Clans have hundreds of warships, but they don’t use them, because they’re all mothballed.
A longwinded explanation for a short response…
(4)
I want warships to be strategic blockers in-game. If you reread my suggestions, you’ll see that as a recurring theme. So their purpose is to disrupt large troop formations, usually attended by large jumpship fleets. Scare the jumpships away and you trap your opponent’s armies. Thus Strategery is born.
Either way i'm on board for a new toy
Ogra_Chief
2014-08-16 21:12:41
In case you missed how much of a nerd I am... here are my rules for aerospace units. Yes, I had them lying around. Yes, I had planned to suggest them once you introduced warships. Yes, i'm that evil.
Aerospace fighters are similar to Conventional Fighter aircraft, but are capable of operating in both an atmosphere and in space, which makes them far more versatile.
Aerospace units are meant to add a new addition to the game, both uncomplicated and useful.
Aerospace Forces (AF):
ID
Class
Strength
Cost
AD
Dropships (Assault)
6
15
AH
Heavy
5
12
AM
Medium
4
9
AL
Light/Attack
2
5
Aerospace units denoted with double-asterisk, “**”
Aerospace units can only be built by Manufacturing Centers.
Aerospace units do not attack conventional or mech units directly.
Aerospace units can combine with either conventional or mech units with no restriction, and do not need leaders to do so.
Aerospace units combine their strength value with conventional or mech units to attack other ground forces. This is the only way aerospace units can attack ground forces.
Aerospace units can only be attacked by other aerospace forces. Neither conventional or mech units can attack them. They must target specific aerospace units.
Aerospace units are captured if there are no conventional or mech units present to support them.
Aerospace units are transported as mech units are and thus only take one transportation slot on a jumpship.
Aerospace units prevent jumpships from retreating from combat unless another friendly aerospace unit is present to allow jumpships to escape.
Aerospace units can attack other aerospace units.
Naming conventions/combination rules remain the same and need leaders to combine with other aerospace units of different names to attack an enemy aerospace unit.
Aerospace units of the same name can combine to attack other enemy aerospace units, but a combined unit cannot then combine a second time with a conventional or mech unit.
Ogra_Chief
2014-08-16 21:16:11
To clarify:
Aerospace units can attack other aerospace units. They must target specific aerospace units.
ScrapYardArmory_Brian
2014-08-21 08:52:11
The whole targeting things may be hard to code. Do you think it would be better to use a self-assigned casualty system more similar to the way ground combat works?
Ogra_Chief
2014-09-02 22:41:21
That will work. What ever is simpler and allows for greater flexibilty on your part in the future.
kellhound
2017-06-15 12:09:24
I think this would be awesome! Did they get added to the game so that the game owner needs to turn them on, or is it still under construction/consideration?
Jimmy the Tulip
2017-06-16 16:38:28
This one is still in the "blueprint" stage. :)
johnpaulaxon
2017-07-11 05:09:09
Looking forward to it!
wizwom
2018-10-25 06:44:43
It seems to me in BattleTech that Aerospace is "also ran" - more fragile than mechs. Also Aerospace assets are usually a small fraction of mech; I have never read a situation where there were regiments of them. So, I'd put the ASF strength vs ground in the 1-2-3 range; have the space combat strength be double that. Warships would also have halved strength against ground units, and be able to combine freely.
Dropships are assumed to be part of the unit. I'd give each unit of strength 4+ a "virtual" 1 strength ASF force (doubled in space) to reflect their dropship. It is assumed to be always adding to the ground force, so it can't add to ground forces.
Warships take several years to build, so, yes, they should take many rounds to make.
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